Those Who Have Died and Came Back Athiets

Arguements for Afterlife for the non-religious

The topic of death is front and center in my line of work as a hospice chaplain. A corollary topic that immediately follows is the question of life after death. Most of my patients, especially those with a Christian religious background believe in after life; Those from non-religious backgrounds are usually non-believers in life after death. Their view was best articulated by one of my Jewish patients thus: "When you are dead, you are dead; you go six feet under and that is it; end of story."

Among believers in after life, there are two groups. Those who have no doubt that there is a heaven for those who live a good life and hell for those who are evil. This heaven is a far away location beyond the clouds with a pearly gate and singing angels where "there is no more sorrow or pain." They would find meaning in their grief or comfort the bereaved using the following cliche: "He is in a better place." Others in this group are less sure about the nature or location of heaven or hell, but believe that there is "some kind of life."

As a Catholic, I once believed in heaven, purgatory and hell as post-death destinations for the good, the bad and the ugly. However, my work and studies in the field of death and dying and my emerging consciousness in a multi-religious and scientific culture has reshaped my understanding of life and death and what may lie beyond the grave or the urn. I am not a blind believer any more. I don't just believe in something just because it is written in a holy book or stated by a learned expert or proclaimed by a pious preacher. I am a strong proponent of "faith seeking understanding."

At the outset, let me state that nobody knows for sure what happens after death, the operative word being, knows, because, as a wise man once said:" human life is like a book whose first and last chapters are missing." Because of this lack of knowledge, religions have come up with different theories about our beginnings and our endings. Creationism, evolution and intelligent design are some of the major theories about our beginnings and heaven, hell, and reincarnation are advanced as theories of our endings.

I would like to propose six arguments for life after death, moving away from the blind faith of the religious to the faith seeking understanding of the spiritually curious.

First, let me start by defining death differently. When someone dies, we usually say: "the soul left the body," which implies that the soul came from "somewhere," inhabited the body for a few years and at the time of death, "left" to go back to where it came from. It also implies that the body existed first and and the soul came later to inhabit the body.

I think we should reverse that statement and say that at the time of death, "the body left the soul," because the soul is eternal and ageless; It has no beginning or ending because the soul is part of God who is eternal. The soul that we carry within each one of our bodies, is a "piece" of God. That is what the Bible means when it says that we are created in the image and likeness of God.

So our body is just an impermanent and perishable wrapping for the soul; The seven billion people on this planet are wrapped in different colors, shapes and sizes, but inside, each one has a piece of God, a spark of divinity or the soul. Some have better wrappings than others. Some decorate and maintain their wrappings better than others, but at the end of the day, they are all wrappings. Death removes the wrappings, and the soul continues to live.

To illustrate this point, Deepak Chopra uses the analogy of a house and the space it occupies. The space existed before the house was built there. The house is the body and the space it occupies, is the soul. If the building is destroyed in a fire, the space it occupied is still there, and one can build another house there. (This is also a viable argument for reincarnation, but we won't get into that here).

Neale Donald Walsch describes each human being as a "localized" expression of the divine Being or as Singular Output of Universal Life (SOUL). Each human life is "God made physical." We are gods with skin.

He uses the analogy of the ocean and the wave to describe the relationship between God and man. "What is important is that there is no single way in which life makes God physical. Some waves are small , barely a ripple, while other waves are huge, thunderous in their sweep. Yet, whether minuscule or monstrous, there is always a wave. And while every wave is different, not a single one is divided from the ocean itself. The wave lands on the beach,but it does not cease to be. It merely changes form, receding back into the ocean. The Ocean does not get "smaller" every time a wave hits the sand. Indeed, the incoming wave reveals the ocean's majesty. Then, by receding into the ocean, it restores the ocean's glory. The presence of the wave is the evidence of the existence of the ocean. Your presence is evidence of the existence of God. You are different from God, but you are not divided from God. The fact that you are not divided from God is why you can never die."(emphasis mine)

Wayne Dyer uses the following expression to describe life, death and life after death. "We come from No- where, we are Now-here and we go No-where." We come from no special location, because God is everywhere, we are now here on earth for a few years, and we go nowhere, which means not to any special location, because, like God, the soul could be present anywhere and everywhere at the same time.

So far, I have presupposed the "existence" of the soul. How do I answer someone who denies the very existence of the soul itself? I define "soul" as that which makes us "more than" our body. It is common experience that we are more than this physical body. When I look at a beautiful sunset and tears starts running down my cheeks, I am experiencing a "manifestation" of the soul. When I look into a stranger's eye and behold divinity, it is the soul seeing that. When I hug some one and whisper in her ears "I love you," it is my soul speaking. When a mother jumps in front of a car to save the life of her child, it is her soul acting.

For many, lack of "physical proof" is the main reason for disbelieving the soul or life after death. I would argue that something does not have to be physical to be real. As a matter of fact, something that is spiritual can be MORE real than that which is physical.

Consider the example of person sitting next to you in a crowded New York subway car. You are rubbing shoulders with that person, you can see and touch that person, but your loved one miles away whom you are not seeing or touching can be "more real" than the person sitting next to you. Similarly, we cannot "see" time, or truth or love, or gravity or air, but they are all real. So, let us get away from the notion that something has to be physical to be real.

Now, let us return to the life of the soul after the body has died. Imagine you are watching your favorite television program. Fifteen minutes into the program, you shut off the TV and close your eyes. What happens to the program? It is still "in the air" as electromagnetic waves. Just because the television is "off'" the program does not cease to exist; just because the radio is "off" the music does not stop; just because the body has "died" the soul does not cease to live.

During our physical life on earth, we live in a three dimensional world and experience life mainly through our five senses. We also experience a "sixth sense" every now and then. The soul lives in a different dimension that is not accessible to our five senses. I believe that at death, our physical limitations end, and we begin to live in a different dimension which our eyes cannot see or ears cannot hear. According to String theory, there are thirteen dimensions in the universe and and we access only three during our physical life on earth. Is it possible that Jesus was referring to these dimensions when he said that there are many "mansions" in my father's house?

My third argument for life after death is the notion that all life is energy and energy cannot be destroyed but only transformed. I wonder if that insight is behind the thinking of the editors of Newsweek magazine who refer to someone's death not as an "obituary" but as a "transition."

A seed that is planted in soil "perishes" but produces a new plant; a leaf that falls to the ground disintegrates and becomes part of fertilizer for new leaves to emerge; hydrogen and oxygen lose their separate identities as gases but when joined together, transform into a new reality called water; water in a container "evaporates" but comes down again as rain; Is it possible that the cyclical and trans-formative nature of everything around us is also endemic to our own existence?

My fourth argument for life after death is that, everything in life has opposites but life itself has no opposite. Let me explain. There is black and white, night and day, up and down, joy and sadness, etc. We cannot experience reality without its opposites. We would not know what "up" is without the concept of "down." We cannot speak of "night" without "day." In a sense, night "ends" day and vice versa.

So, what is the opposite of life? The usual answer is, death. As a matter of fact, we have "life and death" paired together in common parlance and most of literature. But "death" is not the opposite of "life." The word that should be paired with "death" is actually "birth." It should be "birth and death" not "life and death." Life is the only thing in life that has no opposites thereby making "life" unending or eternal.

My fifth argument for life after death is from the field of technology. It was reported that the last words of Steve Jobs before his death, were, "Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow." Is it possible that at that point of his transition, this tech genius was "seeing" something magnificent and beautiful? It is no coincidence that Apple products have no "on-off" switch on its devices.

Steve Jobs' biographer, Walter Issacson, remembers a conversation he had with Jobs about God, afterlife etc. during a 60 minutes interview: "I remember sitting in his back yard in his garden one day, and he started talking about God. He said, "Sometimes I don't. It's 50-50. But ever since I've had cancer I've been thinking about it more, and I find myself believing a bit more. Maybe that's because I want to believe in an afterlife, that when you die it doesn't just all disappear. The wisdom you've accumulated, somehow it just lives on." But then he paused for a second and he said, "Yeah but sometimes I think it's like an on-off switch. Click, and you're gone," he said. Paused again and said, "And that's why I don't put on-off switches on Apple devices."

My sixth argument for life after death is a refutation of the common argument that "if there is life after death, how come we don't know anything about it; or how come no one who has died ever came back to tell us?"

When we were in our mother's womb, we had no awareness of the life to come after our birth. We had no advance knowledge that we would be born into a world that has pizza and donuts and beaches, hills and valleys and cars, trains and plains and Ipods, and Ipads and Iphones. We had no idea that such a beautiful world existed, and yet it did.

May be there is a more beautiful and thrilling world awaiting us after we shed our temporal wrappings and no one knows enough to be a pessimist about it.

Let me conclude with another thought. When we were in our mother's womb, we lived in total darkness mostly slept through the nine months. Is it possible that, despite being outside the womb, we continue to "live in the dark" mostly "sleepwalking thorough life" and that is why it is hard for us to imagine life after death?

It's always personal

With all due respect to your personal feelings on this important issue, each of your 'arguments' actually present as personal theories which appear to originate from - and are predicated upon - a highly subjective and established position of faith and beliefs. I can find no objective facts in your arguments which persuade me (a non-religious person) to even consider changing my position. Your final point is the least subjective in my opinion: I have yet to hear of or read about anyone who has memories from their life before birth. Perhaps there IS something that we simply have no knowledge of; as you reasonably say, we cannot know for sure - but that fact is, for me, a stronger argument against religious belief (which by its very nature is so narrow and prescriptive) than it is an argument for such a belief. It is of course a fascinating and probably endless matter for discussion, my personal conclusion is that there are more than seven billion perspectives upon the subject; I don't think that it will ever be any different. Sharing, however, is always interesting. Thank you.

Posted by Leo Simmons

heaven is a place where nothing ever happens

I'm not religious and do not believe in heaven or hell. However, I have experienced people HAVE come back to tell us that they are still existing even after death. I think we all have had similar experiences but we have been conditioned to not talk about them lest people think we are crazy. My beloved died 3 months ago and has come back to several of his friends who recognized the moment. Be open. Be ready. The signs are there for those who are.

Posted by going to goa blog

'holy? spirit'

I have thought about how the word spirit is used in our language regardless of linguistic origin. I have come to believe that our intuition our inner voice comes from spirit and where does that come from? It is not something that can be explained by theories of cause and effect. Does this mean that there is a spirit that guides us that is always there when we listen? Does the spirit or soul of the an individual after death go somewhere to learn more and to be of more service to
human kind? Are the souls of our loved ones still there to guide us? If only we could listen and pay attention to that inner voice at all times. Paul evokes a much deeper discussion that I long for. Thank you Paul

Posted by elaine

Interesting...but

Thanks Paul. I won't bore you by addressing all your arguments. I'll just consider number 4. You argue that birth and death are opposites. They aren't. Birth and dying are opposites - both being actions. Being alive and being dead are states. Of the two death has more of a claim on eternity.

It seems to me that all your arguments simply amount to the ego crying out in fear at the prospect of encountering night without end.

Posted by Martin

Mr

I hope there is no life after death.I know this ,at first ,sounds quite bad.It is not.Why spend all of this life worrying about ,maybe ,there is another life beyond?Why not just enjoy what we already have?
I used to hope that there was life after death, then got to thinking why?why should I spend every moment wondering if I'd done the right thing,would I go to hell if I did the wrong thing...etc..
I do believe in good and evil but I think this belongs in this life .
We each must live our lives to the full and memory of departed loved ones stay in our hearts,perhaps that's the eternal life we and our departed have craved all along.
Ever heard the saying "rest in peace", I believe we all deserve this.to eternally sleep.Never to wake. No more pain.At rest.
As for there being a deity... Lol....." Starving millions "
"Holocaust"
"War"
Where is your deity?
Not here for sure.
I hope some day to never awake.But for what life is left I hope to enjoy it.You should do the same,and not look for what is not there.

Posted by R.N.Dowt

Nothing

I was raised a Catholic had the Catholic beliefs forced into my head in church and catechism class. After a certain point my mother let me quit catechism class and I quit going to church. Thinking about it over the years I thought what do I remember from when before I was born. The answer is nothing I didn't exist. What will I remember after death nothing because I don't exist. How can you be afraid of nothing ? But I also hope there is something after death or that I will exist in some other way but if I do will I remember my life here ? If you don't how do you know you existed? It's starting all over again and you won't know it.

Posted by Chuck

There is a spiritual universe

Read The Urantia Book. It may help you understand how the universe works...and that there are many universes and galaxies and death is never an end but only a transference to a new world. Most of you are still in kindergarten. Think deeper and open your mind...but first empty it of all the trash.

Posted by Nike DiMattia

I did like reading this. I have been religious ( a born again, Quaker, Catholic and even had moments of being Pagan) I just can't "become" totally atheist anymore than I could not go back to being a born again or become a Muslim. Ijust keep hoping there is something after this mortal life, some other dimension not for me so much but for people who have had rubbish lives and for innocents who've suffered all their lives before having cruel deaths such as an abused child or child born into war and blown up into bis having never known joy.

Posted by Ali Browning

Thank You!

I am going through a very rough time, and although I don't exclusively subscribe to any certain religion, I generally feel that most have some good to offer. Usually. Lately I've struggled with severe anxiety and depression, and they've been most severely exibited with the crisis-of-"faith" I am having. While I dont necessarily agree with everything you've posted, and I feel that some are much more 'opinion' than 'argument', what you've written has given me a tiny bit of hope and peace during an otherwise very painful, BAD day. For that I really, truly thank you - and I may just print this post out to keep for the next bad attack. There are so many cynics who say they are skeptics, it is hard if you're someone who really wishes to believe, but cannot buy in to religion as a whole for whatever reason. I hope there is some one like yourself nearby when I do pass on.

Posted by AR

my experience

Hindus perform certain rituals on every death anniversary of their father or mother. As a tradition, once, I was planning to perform the ritual of my father one day in advance by mistake. According to my wife, my father came in to her dream and told her " Wait, wait, I am coming, I am coming". My wife narrated about her dream around 6 a.m. Obviously I did n't understand her dream and completed the rituals by afternoon. A couple of days later, I realized that the rituals were performed one day earlier!!

I only request the readers to draw their own inferences

tvrao cell +919490167457

Posted by t v rao

Arguments for the spiritually curious..

is a better title.
Discussing God and the afterlife, requires spiritual abilities which not everyone has. For instance, not all of us can understand Einsteins theory, not all of us have the capability to be empathetic. Some people are born without empathy. Some can learn it, while others already have it in varying degrees. Similarly, some people are born without the ability to understand spirituality.
I think one test of this ability is this - on a clear night, sit outside and look into the sky for 15 minutes. A spiritual person will feel something - perhaps a bit unsettling for some but it will be there while a person incapable of understanding will not feel anything and probably wondered what the big deal was.

Posted by Leanne

Thanks for your article, Paul. It is really interesting to read. With respect to the last paragraph, I would like to say that nowadays science has proof that the child, while still in his/her mother womb, can learn about the world outside http://www.ted.com/talks/annie_murphy_paul_what_we_learn_before_we_re_born So if we do learn something even before we are born, how could we learn something about death while being still alive? Maybe science could help us in this direction?

Posted by Monica Marcus

There is Consciousness After Death Because it Creates the Very Life We Know

I am non religious and lost my faith in "God" a few years ago. If you reference the Double Slit Experiment, it concludes that matter itself, rather, particles that make up matter are in a fluid, wave like position until it is observed by a "conscious observer." In other words, particles could and would not solidify to become the "solid" matter that makes up everything in the known universe without "consciousness" observing it. This fact alone proves that consciousness cannot be simply a mechanism of billions of brain cells and synapses that fire within the brain. Thus, consciousness must derive remotely and therefore has no physical limitation. There goes an argument for life after death. You're welcome.

Posted by Anthony parris

This is a great read!!! Thank you

Posted by Apple Oshun

Beareaved

VERY interesting, indeed, I was baptised catholic two of my children were baptised catholic,but I never really believed the catholic narrative ,submarine catholics we used too call our selves if trouble came you called on a higher power. I played with pretty much every religion there was yes even the bad one's spent month's in Thailand in a Temple celebrated Budha's birthday planted Bodie tree's, took part in witchcraft ritual's not the Wicka stuff which I found not interesting enough in all of these I never found anything that brought me any closer too understanding or catching a glimpse of god . But science has taken leap's and bound's in recent year's and as a result there is some proof of souls of that's what we call them or memories' of life's past can and do live on if only as shadow's or echo's of there life, I do not think we are meant too know as the bard said There are more things in Heaven & Earth Horatio, Havin g lost a child recently I wish I could see something a sign anything but, there's nothing, just dream's from which you wake very very sad, for in dream's I can talk and see him but then I wake and know it's just a dream, science need's too stop looking at paranormal things such as hauntings poltergeist activities as on the nose, I have seen such activities have scientific method's applied and there is some energy source at work when these activities occur , but this does not answer anything about heaven and hell and or God

Posted by Liam

Recently lost a loved one.

I recently lost a loved one, one that was loved by many, he only went a few days ago and he died a slow death, and he really only died because of some (please excuse my language, if sensitive, look away) fucking dick hole that should burn in seven rings of molten metal. Again, I am sorry for that, but he could have helped but didn't, and yeah, sorry. But I was wrecked, I cried harder and more often than ever before. I am not religious, but I tried praying, and after I finished praying the other night, I instantly felt better, I felt calm enough to go to sleep. But when I woke up I didn't feel okay anymore, it felt like everything I felt the night before, was gone. But after reading this, I don't really know why, but I feel so much better, I actually chuckled and smiled for the first time since he passed. Something about this brings calmness and relaxation. This brought many thoughts, and calmed me. I am still depressed that he passed. I know this comment is basically me venting out, but I just wanted to say that this is a very enlightening article for me to read. Peace.

Posted by Matthew

well if no one really knows...

I appreciate your free flow thoughts, all together spanning a large range of possibility. But they are all speculative. A lot of time, money, and thought are spent on trying to get peek at "that which lies beyond the veil". None of us have the same idea about what will be after life, and god does not conjure up the identical picture in any 2 minds, just as no 2 people have the same mental construct of the world we live in. The only thing that is certain is that no matter what we think, what will happen to us after we die certainly will. Yes, there will be something after life, even if it is nothing, so just let it be, live and bliss out in the moment, it is all speculation and no solid evidence. Everything seems to have an inverse or opposite side, but in reality opposites are just the 2 extremes of the same spectrum, and are actually one, in this there are no inconsistencies, what will be will be, just be mindful and focus everything here and now...

Posted by Robert

Life after death

I appreciate your article but I don't believe it.
My opinion when we die that's the end of it nothing happen after. All three religions they have a "BOOK" Story to tell they have no solid evident
Even the story puzzle don't match its scrambled I just don't believe your theory
And a book my friend we need more than a story.

Posted by Eddie Mikhail

So you are alive... what now!!!

Good morning,

As short video of my view of where we come from, why we are here and where we go after.

https://youtu.be/aVH9enaR00o

Happy Thoughts,

François

Posted by François

Very interesting and well explained

Posted by John

Supreme Leader Admiral General Aladeen of the Republic of Wadiya

I demand that when I have someone put to death they stay executed. These theories are aladeen to me.

Posted by Aladeen

William

Dear Paul --

You analysis is thoughtfully and rationally presented.

It mercifully lacks the typically predictable knee-jerk reaction offered by people on either end of the spectrum, most of whom are sincere.

First, there are those who believe their religion and its variation thereof is the only assurance of post-death bliss. All others have no hope. Secondly, there are the atheists, agnostics and those of a similar mindset who insist an afterlife is not possible unless one, most or all of the five senses in this dimension can verify it.

I came to place myself firmly in your camp in part because two people very close to me -- my father and a longtime friend -- had verifiable NDEs, or near death experiences.

Without offering up myriad details, their cognizance of events in their beds and in surrounding or adjacent rooms and buildings after being pronounced clinically dead was astounding.

Their post-death experiences also included an acension or movement into a pain-free state of unconditional love, happiness and warmth that was undoubedtly emenating from an all-knowing force or spirit about whom or which words can do no justice.

Both men were "devout" agnostics and returned from their NDEs changed in very different ways, but each for the better. They never knew each other -- my father had crossed over before I developed my friendship -- or the fact that each had expereinced brief "deaths" verfied by attending physicians and nurses. And both returned with absolutely no fear of death.

Just in the past few years did I relay to my friend the experiences of my father, but only after he first confided to me in detail his own NDE.

This tome will not dissuade most of those committed to their entrenched beliefs, and that is perfectly fine. But I would ask that they merely consider that our brief existence in this dimenion was preceded by and will be followed by ones that are much more than our finite minds can comprehend.

Again, thank you, Paul, for a refreshing and meaningful perspective.

Posted by Willoughby1

Reasons for.

The Injustices Of Life
Beauty And Balance
Near-Death Experiences
A Place In The Heart
Universal Beliefs
An Eternal God
Old Testament Predictions
Quotes Of Christ
The Resurrection Of Christ
Practical Effects

Posted by Alex

Dear Paul, thank you for your post. I want to refer first to the following quote from your text: "When we were in our mother's womb, we had no awareness of the life to come after our birth." However, science has come to the conclusion that a child begins to learn even before he/she is born. See http://www.ted.com/talks/annie_murphy_paul_what_we_learn_before_we_re_born Therefore I would conclude that we must be aware that there is "something" outside our mother's womb, even before we were born. Now about the "after-death" I have a question. I am not really atheist, but I do not have a close relationship with God. I am still searching and trying to understand. Among scientists, some would agree with the fact that "...the after-death life, if it exists, is something beyond the human sensorial, intuitive or cerebral capacities, all of them being limited to the macroscopic surrounding." Does this necessarily imply that in order to understand death and/or after-death life we have to look into the microscopic universe? I would appreciate very much any comments you might have on my questions.

Posted by Anonymous

This case has obviously been presented to be viewed in multiple perspectives. However, I strongly agree. The arugument of causation proves that everything has its own cause and effect. We came to live on earth- the cause. Your deeds, whether good or bad are judged to present the effect. The scenarios are only true and real. This matter has been fully addressed but is completely dependent on your state of mind and approach to decide whether true or not. BELIEVE ITS TRUE.

Posted by Sommy

Your arguments have many holes in them

When I had started reading your article, I hoped that you would present possibilities of what happens after death, even for those who might not believe in God. I guess I misread the title. Reading through your arguments, I have to say that your arguments have so many flaws in them that it was a little difficult to get through.

The first is your presupposition of the soul because "spiritual" things can be "more real" than material things. Air, gravity, and time have all been proved mathematically and scientifically. They all have a place and purpose that can be explained. Even love can be explained by science in a purely material sense. The necessity of a soul, however, has not been proven.

Second, while you're right in saying energy can neither be created nor destroyed, that doesn't mean our "self" still consciously exists after death. That could mean that our consciousness (possibly a makeup of the neurons firing off in our brain) becomes something else (like cold, non-thinking energy that goes back to the earth).

Third, life does have an opposite: it's called non-existence. To explain simply, life is just our word we use for our "self" momentarily existing. If you have a "self" that exists, you have "life," you are "alive." You (presuming you don't have a soul) become nonexistent during the event of your death, you are "dead." Or in other words, you simply "aren't."

Fourth, when people die, the brain releases chemicals that sometimes put people in a state of hallucinogenic euphoria. All those talks of near death experiences might possibly be just that: NEAR death experiences. Meaning the person experiences something before their technical death because of their brain (even if they are revived). Key word being "before" their death, because once they hit death, they (for all we know) were completely dead, and completely gone.

Finally, your last argument isn't an argument at all. Refutation of a question isn't an argument because it doesn't argue for your point. It merely offers another possibility that contradicts the person's question. You could say a million things like "maybe they literally can't come back to tell us about life after death" or "maybe they no longer care"...maybe this or that.

By the way, this is someone who does believe in the possibility of an afterlife, but I was hoping you had arguments for how it might be more than just a possibility.

Posted by DJ

Time is a constant. So dependable, So true.
Never late. Always there.
So reliable.

Always your friend, if you let. Cures all, yes even death. You see, time never ends.

We, all, continuous. All comes from My God, your God, the Earth

We are not new, yet so old.
Every atom, every cell, millions, maybe billions of years old.

Fear death, or is it the... well... beginning we fear most. We are simply a transformation of past.

As we go forward, we do not age, yet on the journey to the new. In the ground we all shall lie.

What shall we become? Energy never lost, simply reformed. Yet our brain, just a mechanism for our soul to control our mechanics. Our soul need not energy you see. We need no "body" to be.

Heaven maybe....yes...that is it. If not the clouds, the pearly gates, maybe, just maybe, the soul of man shall stay yet to see the creations Ours has gifted thee.

Our body is nature. As horses run, as the sun kisses an orange. Yes we are all part of this beauty.

Why are we cursed with the struggle to make that beauty even better.

Mans curse, the never ending greed to fix what has never been broke.

Life's secret so clear. There is no death. Just new beginnings. Faith or not, our body is made of the earth, our soul of so much more

We are not a new creation, just transformed to whom we are today.

A wise man knows, It is the journey not the destination

Posted by Kirk Montgomery

I think there is

People may look over us in a form of maybe a dove or a different bird to safeguard new life, this is also proven to be true with babies reborn to bring hope with memories being overwritten maintaining the fact that God is real but we never meet.

Posted by Hiya

Human being

The key to existance is in consciousness. We don't know what consciousness is, but this is where the Soul 'lives'

I had a 'near death experience' 20 years ago now. Actually I term it a 'death experience' which was the most beautiful thing. I think of it almost daily. I don't pretend to understand it (although I've tried) but can only embrace it for what it was and is

Posted by Jez

This morning I googled "Afterlife Intelligent discussion" and I landed on this page.
Do you know why Life After Death is still not taking seriously by a lot of people? Because most people equate it with religion. It has nothing to do with religion PERIOD. Remove your God out of the equation and let us talk about life after death!

Posted by deixoembranco

I know I was born, I know that I'll die, the in between us mine. I am mine.

Posted by Eddie Vedder

Thank you to all who have posted. I am 40 and have just begun my spiritual journey. I have spent so many nights more scared than I have ever been - not of dying but of not existing, not ever spending one more moment with my son, my family or living this wonderful life. I would love to say that your comments have convinced me to believe, but at least I can say they have given me more to think about. I wish you all the best and continue hope that there is more to our existance than from when we are conceived to to when we die.

Posted by Empty4Now

I think this life is just a breeding ground. In order for Intelligence to express itself, it needs a form. The Individual Intelligence is born in this rough plane for one reason: to obtain a form. I think of this form as the matrix which contains the code for all the forms the Individual Intelligence will ever need in all planes of its existence.

Posted by deixoembranco

non entity

My argument for never ending existence is based on logic since I'm a software engineer. It goes like this: Existence is a state machine, which means if there is a spontaneous transition from one state to another, and it occurs even once, then it can occur infinitely like an infinite loop. Just like a bug in a program. If it occurs even once it has the potential for occurring infinitely. Indeed in all my debugging I have never seen some issue simply occur once and never again. Take three states 1) before physical birth. 2) physical existence. 3) after physical existence. Now actually, those three states are really just two states, because state 1) and 3) are essentially identical -- meaning when you reach state 3 (after physical existence), you're really in state 1 (before physical existence). If we transitioned from state 1 to 2, and when we transition to 3, we're really back at 1. Then inductive logic would lead to the conclusion the state 2) Physical existence again is only logical. In fact, it is more illogical to imagine that this transition happens only once. No matter how much of a realist you are, you simply don't have proof that we go from state 1 to 2 only once in the infinity of time. For those who assert there is only one such state transition, it is base entirely on opinion. Just as you would say spiritual thinkers have an opinion. Now whose opinion would be more logical after observing that nothing in the cosmos appears to happen just once. If it does, then someone please let me know of any cosmic phenomemon that has a single occurence in the infiinity of time. If I can't get an answer then it there is no evidence from (so called) realists that the transition from non-physical existence to physical existence happens only once. In fact, it is more realistic to conclude (after observing the all the endlessly looping phenonmena in the cosmos), the existence itself is an endless loop. Hence, the ancient Hindus concluded there is an endless cycle of birth and death, because after meditating on such subjects for thousands of years they were forced into such a conclusion.

Posted by Asadullah

Much Better Arguments

There are much better arguments for an afterlife. The problem with ALL religious arguments like this is that they ultimately depend on doctrine not logic or evidence. Materialists ("physicalists" is actually a more accurate though more technical term) believe there is NO evidence mainly because they simply haven't studied the subject. If you study the history of the British Society for Psychical Research or SPR (for one), you will discover literally a ton of actual scientific evidence, much of it in the form of sessions with legitimate mediums. (Many are frauds but some aren't and researchers over the decades have developed excellent techniques for distinguishing genuine mediumship.) Additionally, there is the evidence of near-death experiences and, especially, the detailed and scientifically reputable reincarnation cases researched by Ian Stevenson. There is no space to go into details here, but if you research the subject honestly, you will discover all the "hard" evidence you'll ever need for an afterlife without all the baggage of theological doctrine....

Posted by William Pennat

A fellow human

I hope of no existent after death. There is nothing my mind can conceive that I would want to do for all eternity. Eternity is an infinitely long time. During the last 8 years I have probably been in as much pain a human being can be in and not die. The thought of reincarnation is the most frightening thought I can conceive of. I'm content loving my loved one now, in this moment. I don't need that experience for eternity. Eternity would devalue it to me. I welcome your sincere, well intentioned comments.

glennallen165@gmail.com

My compassion to those billions who are at this very moment suffering is beyond my ability to put into words.

Sincerely,

Glenn Allen Jr.

Posted by Glenn Allen

if not something .... then something else

For me I would like to say What a incredible insight. This read helped the gears move. Reading for me brought back many different personal theories. I myself usually live by "believe null of what you hear and half of what you see"
from a physical perspective Never has an absolute truth or law been proven. With this in mind we can not simply forgo that after life is out of the the realm of what is possible. Afterlife would have to be logical for this to be true. We can not understand what we have no clue about... We can not apply pragmatical logic for which we don't understand. I believe with a outstanding Yes. We will continue in some way. In my soul I know this to be true. I hope for all others the same. Let me ask you soemthing... Think about something... anything.. close your eyes and see it. Pay attention and see it evolve on its own... continuing without input. For me having the ability to create / depict in my mind that only I can see.... mind you with my eyes closed. This is done simply with no effort. ..... I stand on the side of anything is possible. We just can comprehend it.

I apologize for my grammar and punctuation might warrant a subpoena for you to stand as witnesses of me murdering the ENG language.

d1gl3r@protonmail.com

Posted by d1gl3r

I had my husband cremated. It was our wish that both of us be cremated. I have learned a great deal about the process of cremation. The body completely vanishes during the cremation process. What is returned to the bereaved is a heavy container of ashes, which are the bones. I hearken back to hundred years ago when sharks ate their victims and then digested them and subsequently pooped them out. And what about all the people who have been burned to ashes during a fire? They are going to "rise from the grave to meet the Lord in the air?" What grave? I am completely baffled by this erroneous belief!

Posted by Ercie Berwick

Musician

I very much enjoyed reading your article. Like almost anyone who has ever lived, I have searched for meaning to my life and a reason for my existence. I have of course sought out many of the worlds religions but none of them have answered my questions with anything substantive. I started thinking one day "who am I?" and realized I am only an accumulation of memories. If I had total amnesia I would not be who I am or at least who I perceive myself to be. Thus in my opinion the soul is a blank canvas upon which we create a picture of our experiences. It is like water and our experiences are the extra ingredients that make the soup. Consequently, some of us are just better artists and cooks than others! lol!!

Posted by Kentavious

A bit of protoplasm

Alive, i don't know why.
I enjoy the joys of life, the many different states of being, wallowing in some of my miseries/sufferings; but
I wish to not be alive when any hope of ending any of my personal intolerable miseries/sufferings is completely extinguished.
The meaning of life is ?

Posted by Thomas Greenbank

I used to believe in rebirth and believed in God about a year ago , I am old person and started wondering what happens after death. I started having doubts about life after death in spite I had experience of communicating with my spouse after his death, and also had spoken to God. Also I have other way of explaining of body's relation with soul. In my opinion body is like a machine which is made in mother' womb and soul enters in that body with first breath. And leaves the body with the last breath. The body is there ,every thing belonging to the body is there(Brain,heart,lungs,mouth,GI system ,kidneys but soul or spirit left with the last breath. Lie comes with breath and leaves with breath. Fetus in mother' s womb has mother' s soul or life ,does not have any existence till it takes first breath. Life comes with breath and leaves with breath.

Posted by Gurvinder

I used to believe in rebirth and believed in God about a year ago , I am old person and started wondering what happens after death. I started having doubts about life after death in spite I had experience of communicating with my spouse after his death, and also had spoken to God. Also I have other way of explaining of body's relation with soul. In my opinion body is like a machine which is made in mother' womb and soul enters in that body with first breath. And leaves the body with the last breath. The body is there ,every thing belonging to the body is there(Brain,heart,lungs,mouth,GI system ,kidneys but soul or spirit left with the last breath. Lie comes with breath and leaves with breath. Fetus in mother' s womb has mother' s soul or life ,does not have any existence till it takes first breath. Life comes with breath and leaves with breath.

Posted by Gurvinder

Insights from the elderly

Interesting article, thank you. I love your quote about the body leaving the soul rather than the soul leaving the body.

I work with the elderly and have been surprised how the majority of these fairly conventional, church-going or formerly church-going women (who I work with) have had experiences of seeing or sensing their late husbands and mothers. They just tell you as it is, theyre not remotely interested in any new age or spiritualist teachings or reported NDEs etc, they just seem to quietly 'know'. One woman even sees her late husband over her shoulder in the reflection of her TV, she wouldnt tell her vicar this though & tends to keep it to herself.

It is from these women I have gained the most comfort, for it is something that we cannot prove (and even seemingly strong 'evidence' will always be debunked) it is something we 'know'.

On a personal note, I find it quite sad & frustrating that life after death is very much a hushed up conversation piece (certainly here in the UK), I have been to so many funerals where nothing about the deceased person's continuation is mentioned - just how you should remember their life. On a couple of occasions I have seen or sensed the deceased person stood by their coffin or crouched by the side of their loved one but could never say anything & I dont believe it would be appropriate at a funeral anyway, but its sad that we live like this. Life after death transcends religion - it is open to all, believers or non-believers and on our death beds we will just 'know'.

Posted by Lu

The Bible and other religious texts are filled with accounts of interactions between spirits and mortals in which the mortals - some non-believers - are convinced the spirit is real, divinely inspired, and there to help. I'll subscribe to the idea of an afterlife when a spirit similarly visits me.

Posted by Paul Gallagher

The soul leaves the body or the body leaves the soul. With all due respect your argument is starting at the wrong place: how do you know there are souls. ( I am asking all this because I would like to believe in souls!!!)

Posted by Philippe

godless

why does there have to be a God in the afterlife.Why not a place with no bosses,we cooperate and progress on our own.the alpha person is baggage from this life.free your soul and your ass will follow

Posted by Harley

be serious please

Really, your fifth 'argument' for the afterlife is that Steve Jobs is reported to have said, "Oh wow" three times as he was dying? Well, let's all just stop debating, then.

Posted by LeoMDK

100% life after death is real

All i could say is, there is life after death, beleive me or not. mark my words.. see you when we get there.

Posted by RUSH AHDAD

'Where death is I am not. Where I am death is not. Therefore death is nothing for me.' Epicurus

Posted by Jeffrey

Honestly I have a different theory...

I wasn't brought up in a church or anything. I was baptised as a baby but after that the only times I went to church was when I had friends who went. I've always been seeking answers though especially pertaining to what happens when we die. There are psychic mediums who do free shows on blogtalkradio so I have called in before and tried to get them to make contact with my dad who passed in 2011. The first 2 were really vague and nothing they said was specific to my dad. The 2nd one picked up on his cause of death and said a comment about golf but really how many older guys play golf. I thought I would give it one more shot and she absolutely blew me away with her accuracy. Literally every single thing she said was really specific and a couple things I had never told anyone and there is nothing besides an obituary posted online and it only contains the name of his family so idk ... like any medium can say "your father enjoyed nature" again, totally vague but right after that she said "he sends hummingbirds to your mom" My mom (who just passed this last Dec 19) was obsessed with hummingbirds. He always bought her a blown glass hummingbird for Christmas and her birthdays. After that Idk I'm kind of convinced. On the other hand though, part of me wonders if it's possible that this is Hell and you have to "earn" your way to the better place. If you just start thinking about people who have died who were good people who worked hard and then suddenly died but somehow people who should die like pedophiles are still alive?? Also this especially was apparent to me as I went from being independant and never relying on anyone and could overcome anything thrown my way to suddenly getting an illness that it took dr's over 2 years of tests to figure out what it is and that was in Nov 2017. Today I still have not been able to get treated. My condition has worsened to the point my mobility is crap now and I literally cannot do anything without relying on people. I hate it so much. I spent years doing whatever was necessary to avoid becoming what I am now. I have pain all day and it wakes me up every 45 mins at night. Every day I wake up mad that I woke up. I feel like i'm being tortured. Then my mom who was healthy with the exception of mild arthritis suddenly dies from a spontaneous cerebral brain bleed. How does that make sense. I'm angry. It should have been me. I don't own a house and have dozens of people who would need to be told it would have been so much easier for everyone. Im not an atheist. I always I guess thought there must be a God but if there is wtf is his end game. Unless of course I'm right and this is hell. The only other theory I have is based on karmic debt. Everyday I try to figure out what I did to deserve this and other than being a bitch and some shoplifting in my teens there really isn't anything. Maybe i am paying for something I did in a past life?

Posted by Lisa Marie

Jesus said, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die' (John 11:25).
In all the discussion about life after death, there is no better person to listen to than the one who DID ACTUALLY COME BACK FROM THE DEAD. Not from a near-death experience, or resucitation, but from verifiable and irreversible death. He not only said the words above, but proved them to be true when he rose from the dead, never to die again. He is therefore the ultimate authority on the issue, and not only that, but also the only one in whom eternal life can be experienced, and it is an offer open to all who come to him.
The evidence for his resurrection has been discussed and debated for centuries, and many who have set out to disprove it as a historical event have, to their surprise, found themselves convinced by it. Have a look here as just one of many places where that evidence is examined: https://www.bethinking.org/did-jesus-rise-from-the-dead/q-is-there-really-solid-evidence-for-the-resurrection-of-jesus (this website also has other resources on this topic), or read, for example, the book "The Case for Christ" written by Lee Strobel (an atheist investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune until he examined the evidence for himself) or the film of the same name that is based on the book. Or go back to the source materials and read for yourself one of the four accounts of the life of Jesus in the New Testament (the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John).
Only Jesus has the audacity to stand, staring death in the face at a tomb in which someone had been laid four days earlier, and say "I am the resurrection and the life" - and then prove that claim by raising that man from the dead with just three words.

Posted by Corinne Brixton

Those Who Have Died and Came Back Athiets

Source: https://deathcafe.com/blog/32/

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